Thu 18 Jul 2024

 

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    Live:

    BBC election debate updates as Sunak praises ‘brilliant’ Mordaunt – after she calls D-Day gaffe ‘wrong’

    Penny Mordaunt has been praised by Rishi Sunak despite calling his decision to leave D-Day events in Normandy early “completely wrong” in a televised debate.

    Writing on X after the BBC debate, Mr Sunak said: “Brilliant performance from @PennyMordaunt tonight on the #BBCDebate.”

    Rishi Sunak’s decision to depart Thursday’s D-Day commemorations early – and leave Lord Cameron to take part in a photo opportunity on Omaha Beach with Joe Biden, Emmanuel Macron and Olaf Scholz – has seen the PM forced to apologise for his “mistake”.

    Ms Mordaunt also hinted further Tory tax cuts could be on the way if the party is elected, while doubling down on disputed claims Labour will raise taxes by £2,000 per family.

    This evening’s BBC debate features representatives from six other parties including Labour’s Angela Rayner and Reform’s Nigel Farage.

    Follow i‘s live blog for updates.

    Tonight’s key moments

    We’re bringing our live blog of tonight’s BBC election debate to a close, but here’s a summary of the key moments:

    D-Day row rumbles on

    It all started with the row over the Prime Minister’s decision to leave D-Day commemorations early.

    Penny Mordaunt said Rishi Sunak’s call was “completely wrong” and added: “I’m from Portsmouth, I have also been defence secretary and my wish is, at the end of this week, is that all of our veterans feel completely treasured.”

    Tories have told i they are in despair tonight over the unforced error, which has been Mr Sunak criticised by veterans and resulted in polls showing two thirds of Britons believe his behaviour was unacceptable.

    Parties re-open tax row

    “Labour’s plans to tax your future pension, senior nurses and doctors, is going to get healthcare professionals to leave the service. That is going to lead to more waiting lists,” Ms Mordaunt said.

    “Penny, that’s rubbish and you’ve just said we need a strong economy – you backed Liz Truss and crashed our economy,” Labour deputy leader Angela Rayner replied.

    Ms Mordaunt added: “Angela Rayner’s party – Keir Starmer confirmed this earlier this week – they are going to put up your taxes by £2,000 per working household.”

    The controversial figure has made headlines, with the Labour leader accusing Mr Sunak of lying about how the sum was calculated, and Ms Rayner also branded the allegation “a lie” during the debate.

    Nigel Farage claims it was “one vs six” over immigration

    Reform UK leader Nigel Farage claimed he was “on a platform tonight with six other people whose parties have been wholly unconcerned” with immigration.

    SNP Westminster leader Mr Flynn said voters had been “led down the garden path by the right wing in British politics for far too long.

    “We need to stand against it. We need to promote our economy, promote our public services, and do so by promoting migration.”

    Who won the TV debate? Farage proves he is an existential threat to the Tories

    Our columnist Katy Balls has given her snap verdict on tonight’s debate.

    In the seven-party debate on Friday, there was one looming question: who posed the bigger problem to the Tories: Angela Rayner, representing Labour, or Nigel Farage, the newly installed leader of the Reform party?

    Yes, Labour are over twenty points ahead in most polls and look on course for a landslide – but it is Farage’s return that makes many Tory candidates believe an electoral wipeout on 4 July is possible.

    Farage’s final statement saw him set out his stall and long term aim. He said that the election was already decided – and it was time for voters to choose the best opposition to Labour. He suggested Reform was on a journey and the only party with clear answers.

    As several polls suggest Reform is closing in on the Conservatives, Farage’s opportunity to set out his stall with the public will be a cause of anxiety in Conservative Campaign Headquarters. They want to suggest it is either Starmer or Sunak.

    The risk is that tonight Farage showed there is another way.

    You can read the full article here.

    Sunak hails Mordaunt performance

    Despite Penny Mordaunt branding Rishi Sunak’s decision to leave a D-Day memorial in Normandy as “completely wrong”, the PM has given his backing of her performance in tonight’s debate.

    Mr Sunak wrote on X, formerly Twitter: “Brilliant performance from @PennyMordaunt tonight on the #BBCDebate.

    “The only thing that Labour has to offer is £2,094 in tax rises.”

    Count Binface to stand against Sunak

    Away from tonight’s debate, Count Binface has announced he will be standing in the general election and taking on “the biggest fish of the lot” as he sets his sights on the Prime Minister’s constituency in North Yorkshire.

    In his podcast Trash Talk, Count Binface confirmed on Friday that he will be standing as a candidate in Richmond and Northallerton, which has been held by Rishi Sunak since 2015.

    Speaking on his podcast from the County Hall in Northallerton, Binface said it would be like “Fury vs Usyk times a billion” on 4 July.

    The self-described ‘intergalactic space warrior’ said: “If you know Binface, you’ll know I always take on the biggest fish of the lot, although I should add this time, the biggest is only meant figuratively.

    “That’s right, I am here right now in Richmond and Northallerton, and I can announce that I will be taking on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak in electoral combat.

    “You shirked D-Day, Rishi – you can’t miss the B-Day.”

    Fact check: Is Labour introducing ‘12 new taxes’?

    Penny Mordaunt said that Labour plans to bring in several “new taxes”, saying: “We’ve heard overnight about 12 new taxes that Labour are going to bring in.”

    Her argument echoed several social media posts from the Conservative Party that made the same claim.

    The assertion that Labour has a dozen new taxes planned if it forms the next government comes from a newspaper report that does not explicitly refer to new taxation.

    There are also no official Labour Party announcements saying that it would create 12 new taxes.

    The claim of “12 new taxes” is attributed by the Conservative Party to an anonymous Labour source in an article published on the Guardian website. They suggest that Labour shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves has “between 10 and 12 measures… all of which will raise small pots of money”.

    These alleged revenue-raising ideas have not been confirmed or denied by Labour and do not necessarily involve the creation or application of any new taxes.

    Parties give closing statements

    We go now to the parties’ final thoughts.

    Angela Rayner says: “After 14 years of chaos, it’s time for change. Keir Starmer has changed the Labour Party.”

    She promises economic security, lower NHS waiting times, lower energy bills with Great British Energy, a clampdown on antisocial behaviour, more secure borders, and more teachers.

    Stephen Flynn asks who voters “trust to put Scotland’s best interest first”, saying his party would deliver economic growth by working towards net zero and rejoin the European single market.

    Carla Denyer says that “the Tories are toast, thank goodness. But we deserve better than a Labour Party that is offering more of the same. Angela says that Keir has changed the Labour Party, and she’s right – he’s changed them into the Conservatives.

    “Our children deserve better. The Green Party is on the cusp of breaking through in seats up and down the country. Green MPs will never stop defending our future […] We deserve real hope and real change.”

    Rhun ap Iorwerth says that he is standing up for a “different kind of politics”, a “positive” vision of “send[ing] Labour a message: stop taking Wales for granted”.

    “Communities throughout the country feel ignored. Well, I won’t let Wales be.”

    Penny Mordaunt says: “We’ve come through tough times, and now there is a choice to be made. You can choose Angela Rayner and Keir Starmer and get higher taxes, higher bills, and have your pension raided. Or you can stick with us and the plan that is working.

    “We will cut your taxes, protect your pension, and defend this nation.”

    Daisy Cooper says: “Our country is crying out for change […] everything feels broken.

    “Under Ed Davey’s leadership, the Lib Dems will fix our NHS and social care […] and end the scandal of filthy raw sewage being pumped into our rivers and streams.”

    She promises a “fair deal” for voters.

    Nigel Farage says that “unlike the other six, I don’t need an autocue. I believe in what I believe in.

    “Our politics isn’t working. You’ve heard these pathetic arguments tonight between the two big parties.”

    He says that Reform UK is “about to become a political phenomenon. […] I urge you: join the revolt”.

    Fact check: Are police numbers at a ‘record’ high?

    Penny Mordaunt has told the audience: “We have now a record number of police.”

    This is consistent with a government claim that accurately suggests the total number of police officers in England and Wales is higher now than it has ever been. 

    However, this does not take into account the population growth in Britain since 2010. A calculation by Full Fact suggests the headcount of officers has decreased from about 1 officer per 381 people in March 2010 to 1 officer per 404 people in March 2023.

    In 2010, when David Cameron took office, the population in England and Wales was 55.7 million. 

    In 2023, the population of England and Wales is projected to be 60.4 million – up by 8.5 per cent, according to the Office for National Statistics.

    However, the number of police officers has only increased by only 2.4 per cent.

    Penny Mordaunt: A Tory party leader waiting in the wings

    Penny Mordaunt, who has long harboured ambitions to become the leader of the Conservative party, had her breakthrough moment in the public consciousness at the King’s Coronation last year.

    The Leader of the Commons went viral on social media after her starring role in the ceremony, carrying the 3.6kg 17th century Sword of State in front of King Charles III, and a worldwide audience of hundreds of millions, for nearly an hour.

    Ms Mordaunt was given the job of Commons Leader by Liz Truss when she was Prime Minister in September 2022, in what was widely regarded as an attempt by the former PM to sideline her leadership rival, even though the MP for Portsmouth North had backed her halfway through the contest.

    But it had the opposite effect. Two days later, Queen Elizabeth II died, and Ms Mordaunt, who also has the role of Lord President of the Privy Council, became centre-stage in the accession to the throne of King Charles. Days after the Queen’s death, in a ceremony at St James’s Palace, she became the first woman in British history to proclaim a new monarch.

    Her sword-carrying performance during the Coronation seven months later sparked fresh speculation about whether she could become the next Conservative leader.

    Rumours about her leadership ambitions have continued since.

    In March, Tory MPs were briefing that Ms Mordaunt, who is popular with grassroots Tories, was being lined up to replace Rishi Sunak as a potential unity candidate – but sources close to her dismissed the claims as “nonsense”.

    Ms Mordaunt first ran for Tory leader in the summer 2022 contest after Boris Johnson resigned as PM, coming third behind Liz Truss and Mr Sunak. She considered standing again following Ms Truss’s resignation in October, but in the end Mr Sunak was unopposed.

    She also served in the Cabinet under Theresa May and Boris Johnson.

    Ms Mordaunt, a former Royal Navy reservist, won her own seat of Portsmouth North in 2010 from Labour and has built her majority since then. She faces a challenge to retain the seat in the face of a potential Labour onslaught in the general election.

    Plaid’s ap Iorwerth calls for communities to be empowered on policing decisions

    Angela Rayner says that young people “don’t feel safe either” and she finds it “sad” that they are “frightened”.

    “Young people who are worried about knife crime generally tend to carry a knife […] we’ve got to educate our young people.”

    She says that the Conservatives have actually cut police officer numbers, contrary to what Penny Mordaunt said.

    She says that community policing is important and it is a “real scandal” that young people feel they will be “protected” if they carry a knife.

    Rhun ap Iorwerth says that the areas where crime is most prevalent are the areas “suffering the highest levels of poverty”.

    “We need to look back through the education system; we have to make it very clear to our young people that there can be zero tolerance.

    “It makes me too very very worried about the future for young people.”

    He says he wants to “bring the decision-making closer to communities” in Wales so that they work for specific areas.

    Carla Denyer says she wants to see a counsellor in every school to help with pupils’ mental health.

    The SNP’s Stephen Flynn, asked about the fact that police officer numbers in Scotland are at the lowest level since 2008, says: “Serious knife crime in Scotland is comparatively low”, although he is “not complacent”.

    He agrees with Mr ap Iorwerth that the government must “invest” in deprived areas, and that the government has “failed” in giving young people “hope”, meaning some “turn to violence”.

    Nigel Farage says that “our whole approach to crime is wrong” as low-level crime is not addressed.

    Greens would tackle causes of crime rather than promising to be ‘tough’ on it, says Denyer

    A father in the audience says he is concerned about knife crime and asks how the parties will make sure his son is safe.

    Carla Denyer says that everyone has the right to feel safe, saying the “obvious” solutions involve making sure “there are more officers out and about”.

    She says other parties say they will be “tough on crime”, but “the reality is that not all crime can be tackled by being ‘tough’”.

    “The causes of knife crime are complex, but they include the fact that a generation of people are growing up without access to the services they need,” she said.

    Nigel Farage says Reform would boost “stop and search”, and will not shy away from doing this in areas with a high proportion of ethnic minority communities. “We must do stop and search,” he says.

    He says: “We are seeing a societal decline of law and order in this country, and government and the police forces have been too scared to do what needs to be done.”

    Lib Dem Daisy Cooper says “we need to get back to good, old-fashioned community policing”, which has been “all-but wiped out”.

    On stop and search, she says it “can be a useful tool”, but “suspicion-less stop and search […] is not valid”.

    Mr Farage says: “We do know the areas where knife crime if the most prevalent,” adding: “We’re not going to deal with the question unless we stop being scared.”

    Penny Mordaunt says that during the past 14 years “we have over halved crime” if you leave out fraud.

    “We have hotspots where knife crime in particular” is high. She says: “We have met our manifesto commitment of 20,000 more police officers.”

    She adds that “if you live in a Labour area you are 40 per cent more likely to be a victim of crime”.

    Tories have ‘moved the goalposts’ on climate pledges, says Cooper

    Lib Dem Daisy Cooper says that the Tories have “moved the goalposts” on climate changes.

    “We are facing a climate and ecological emergency”, but it can be tackled while promoting economic growth, she says.

    Rhun ap Iorwerth says that “nothing is more important than looking after the environment”.

    He says that “prosperity” can come “hand in hand” with tackling the climate emergency.

    “We need to see Wales being paid the £4bn that is owed for the investment in HS2 rail in England […] to drive people onto public transport.”

    Penny Mordaunt says that the government has to work towards net zero “with people”, adding “we are going to do this at a pace people can afford”.

    She says that under Labour people will not be allowed to buy a petrol car, adding “my constituents can’t afford that”. In reality, the end petrol and diesel cars will affect manufacturing, and people will still be allowed to buy second-hand vehicles, under current plans.

    She says that the UK needs to be “building supply chains” so that we are not dependent on countries like China for technology.

    Angela Rayner tries to respond, but Ms Mordaunt interjects repeatedly, claiming that Great British Energy will not produce enough for the UK.

    Ms Rayner says that the publicly-owned company will lower bills and that the Tories claim that Labour will stop people buying cars because “you have failed the British people, and people can see that”.

    Ms Mordaunt returns to the £2,000 Labour tax increase claim as Mishal Husain moves on to the next question.

    ‘Net zero is economic growth’, says Flynn

    The Greens’ Carla Denyer says that Nigel Farage is “misleading you” when he says that net zero is unrealistic.

    She adds that no one can trust the Tories on climate change, and that people are “sorely disappointed in the Labour Party too”, as they have “rolled back” on their £28bn climate pledge.

    Angela Rayner says: “We want to get to that point, but we will invest in our green prosperity plan.

    “We do need to look at economic growth and it’s not divorced from looking at climate policies.

    “We do have to have a green transition”, including home insulation and the publicly owned Great British Energy.

    Stephen Flynn says “net zero is economic growth” and that much of the technology needed to achieve it is in Scotland.

    “The UK needs to invest […] the opportunities are huge, but we have to grasp them.”

    He says that Westminster is committing a “betrayal of future generations”, but the SNP will commit to a “just transition”.

    On the subject of oil and gas in the North Sea, he says that the Tories believe that oil and gas will exist forever, which it will not, Labour want to shut down the sector, which will do away with hundreds of jobs, but the SNP will find a “sensible” middle ground.

    Current climate policies are ‘completely unrealistic’, says Farage

    A handout picture released by the BBC, taken and received on June 7, 2024, shows Leader of Reform UK Nigel Farage and Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth (R) taking part in the second live TV debate, between leaders and representatives from the leading parties at the BBC studio in London, in the build up to the UK General Election on July 4. (Photo by Jeff OVERS / BBC / AFP) / RESTRICTED TO EDITORIAL USE - MANDATORY CREDIT " AFP PHOTO / JEFF OVERS-BBC " - NO MARKETING NO ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS - DISTRIBUTED AS A SERVICE TO CLIENTS TO REPORT ON THE BBC PROGRAMME OR EVENT SPECIFIED IN THE CAPTION - NO ARCHIVE - NO USE AFTER **JUNE 28, 2024** / (Photo by JEFF OVERS/BBC/AFP via Getty Images)
    Reform UK leader Nigel Farage (left) and Rhun ap Iorwerth of Plaid Cymru (Source: AFP)

    Asked which is more important, economic growth or environmental pledges, Nigel Farage says: “It depends what those climate policies are. At the moment we’re pursuing completely unrealistic climate policies.

    “The Labour pledge to decarbonise the grid by 2030 will not happen […] it’s actually unaffordable. We have to be grown up and sensible.

    “We’re sacrificing economic growth; we’ve been massacring British manufacturing.

    “All we’ve done is […] export carbon emissions when our steelworks go to India or our car manufacturer goes to China or to Turkey.”

    He says that the UK cannot deal with climate change because it produces less than one per cent of carbon emissions.

    “Let’s just be sensible […] Net zero is a bad policy.”

    SNP has delivered on pledges, says Flynn

    The Greens’ Carla Denyer says that she shares the frustration of the audience member who believes that politicians never deliver on their promises.

    She says: “The Green Party is different; that’s why I joined.

    “As Labour drop pledge after pledge […] slide further and further towards the Conservatives […] the argument for voting for a bit of diversity in the House of Commons grows ever stronger.

    “The Green Party when I joined […] was a pretty small and young party [..] but we’re coming of age.”

    The SNP’s Stephen Flynn argues that his party has delivered on pledges, saying that 100,000 children have been lifted out of poverty by the Scottish Child Payment, rail is nationalised, and so is water.

    “Ultimately it’s about keeping our promise to the Scottish people,” he says.

    He says that Labour and the Tories will continue with £18bn worth of “public sector cuts” and “Brexit”.

    Rhun ap Iorwerth says that in his previous career as a journalist he could see the “cynicism” about UK politicians.

    “We have to have a system that protects” normal people, as “fairness” is important, he adds.

    The Lib Dems’ Daisy Cooper says that we have heard “promise after promise after promise” from the Tories, but this Parliament has been “characterised by law-breaking” and has “broken people’s hope”.

    Challenged that her party withdrew its tuition fees pledge, she says that that is a “sore subject”, but that this election “is about hope and about change”, and that people can be in “no doubt” that Sir Ed Davey is in politics “for the right reason”.

    Fact check: 6.7m migrants came to UK under Labour and Tories, says Farage

    Net migration increased to record levels under the Conservatives

    Nigel Farage said this should be an “immigration election”, claiming 2.7 million migrants came to the UK under the Labour government between 1997 and 2010 and 4 million arrived since then, under the Conservatives. 

    Total migration to the UK under New Labour started at 327,000 a year when they came into power and rose to 604,000 a year by 2010. By 2023, under the Tories, 1.2 million people came to the UK a year.

    However, most commentators tend to analyse net migration as this takes into account the number of people leaving the UK, as well as those coming to the country. 

    Between 1997 and 2010 net migration was estimated to be 2,511,000. 

    After David Cameron was elected to power in 2010, he promised to get net migration down to the “tens of thousands”. He failed to do this, and net migration under the Tories until 2023 stood at 4,206,000.

    During the election campaign, the Conservatives announced the party would like to introduce a cap on the number of visas available to migrants.

    The ultimate goal of the policy is to reduce the UK’s net migration levels, which hit a record high of 745,000 in 2022.

    Labour, meanwhile, has vowed to bring down net migration by reducing the need for foreign workers through improvement of training for the health and social care, construction, engineering and IT sectors.

    Labour and Tories ‘don’t really disagree on anything’, says Farage

    Nigel Farage says that the Tory and Labour leaders are “dull”, especially Sir Keir Starmer, who is “Blair without the flair”.

    He says “our political model is broken”, and that Labour and the Tories “don’t really disagree on anything”.

    “That’s why Reform have risen so quickly in the polls. We need a kind of revolt.”

    He adds that currently “nothing much will change no matter who gets in”.

    His response is met by a smattering of applause.

    Angela Rayner says: “We’ve had this sort of clown personality before from Boris Johnson.

    “That eroded people’s trust. At a time when people wanted government to do the right thing […] they disrespected them.

    “The Tories have crashed the economy […] we will not promise anything we cannot fund.”

    Fact check: Will Labour raise taxes by £2,000?

    During the debate, Penny Mordaunt once again raised the controversial claim of a £2,000 tax rise by Labour.

    Rishi Sunak repeatedly touted this figure in his head-to-head debate on ITV with Sir Keir Starmer earlier in the week.

    But the numbers have been called into question not only by Labour but also by those outside party politics.

    Nick Davies, programme director at the Institute for Government, told i that the interpretation of his work was “misleading” and “not independent or fair”.

    Part of the tax claims are based on work by Mr Davies about the costs of reducing outsourcing within Government.

    The analysis has been used by the Conservatives to claim Labour’s pledges so far would cost £6.5bn across the next Parliament, and would need to be paid for by tax rises totalling £2,000.

    Rishi Sunak has since defended the figure, but even the “independent Treasury officials” he has cited have called the claim inaccurate, with the department’s top official saying they should not be used by the Conservatives.

    Read our full article here.

    Why do parties promise things and never deliver? leaders asked

    An audience members asks why parties “promise things but when they’re elected nothing gets done?”

    The audience laughs as Mishal Husain turns first to Conservatives representative Penny Mordaunt.

    “We have been through some very hard times, but the recovery is there,” she says.

    She adds it is vital to lower taxes.

    She says Labour’s Great British Energy will result in “giant bills” and that the Tories want people to have “disposable income”.

    Challenged that personal taxes are still rising due to the freezing of income tax thresholds, she says: “We have had to spend a lot of money on things like furlough.

    “The pandemic has been expensive, and we’ve also had terrible global shocks.

    “What you need now is disposable income in your pockets.

    “You need taxes to be cut.”

    She repeats the contested claim that Labour will raise taxes by £2,000 per household, and Ms Husain stops her, reminding her that the top civil servant in the country has asked the Tories not to use that figure.

    Lib Dems would ‘tax fairly’, says Cooper

    Liberal Democrat Daisy Cooper says that “everything feels broken; nothing works,” and that’s why her party was the “first” to call for a windfall tax on oil and gas companies when energy bills went up.

    She says that it an example of how her party would “tax fairly”.

    Stephen Flynn criticises ‘conspiracy of silence’ for ‘unmitigated disaster’ of Brexit

    After Penny Mordaunt and Angela Rayner talked over each other about the Tories’ disputed £2,000 Labour tax increase claim, Carla Denyer jokes: “Well – that was terribly dignified, wasn’t it.”

    Denyer says that the cost-of-living crisis “doesn’t have to be like this” as “a Green economy would create jobs” and the social security system could act as a real “safety net”.

    “The Greens would provide a real safety net, starting with a £15 minimum wage for all ages [..] and removing the cruel two-child benefit cap.”

    She receives applause for this answer.

    Nigel Farage says that working people “feel resentful” as there are people struggling while others “opt not to work”.

    “Your energy bills are too expensive” because they are taxed for “windfarm companies”, and “rents are too high” because of the “population explosion”.

    “Reducing net migration to zero would ease that,” he said.

    He says that too many people in “middle-income jobs” are being dragged into “higher and higher taxation”.

    “To hear Penny Mordaunt […] pretending [the Tories] are a tax-cutting party – frankly it’s dishonesty on a breathtaking scale.”

    The SNP’s Stephen Flynn says that the “challenges facing the economy are much deeper” than Liz Truss’ mini-budget, making reference to “austerity”.

    “There’s also a conspiracy of silence on one other issue: that’s Brexit,” which he says has “put your food bills up unnecessarily”.

    “It has been an unmitigated disaster for the economy,” he says, to enthusiastic applause from the audience.

    He urges voters to challenges the Tories and Labour about why they are not seeking to rejoin the single market.

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